Michigan Short Track Racing Club: It's about time - Michigan Short Track Racing Club

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It's about time

#1 User is offline   Kevin 05 Icon

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Posted 01 November 2014 - 06:41 PM

Heard today from a very good source that the Lucas Oil Modified Series has finally come to there senses and starting in 2015 they will allow fab front clips with a 25-50 pound weight penalty. So maybe we will only have to weight another 10 years and Top Speed and UMP will follow suit. You will still have to run stock lowers and big springs, but at least someone is finally seeing the light on the issues with trying to build a mod with a stock front clip.. So maybe someday this trend will move East.
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#2 User is offline   mod911 Icon

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Posted 02 November 2014 - 09:55 AM

Nice,kill them enonomy mods completely. So late models are legal with no fenders now. A 100 pound penalty UP, FRONT is fair. Since people cheat up the frame anyway by moving mount points it will be much easier now to completely ignore the rules. The same fools who made it un affordable will love it. WHY call them mods,there is nothing stock,or modified, call em FABS,not mods. SO with the new aero body and now maybe a tube frame why not bring back late models, REAL ones with 4 barrells and few rules. IF you can afford it ,,,,,it's legal.

IT would be different IF someone had a frame jig and IF your car does NOT fit,you LEAVE the racing surface. PERIOD, no excuses . SO a tube frame and aero are the new norm? WHat kind of a fkn idiot would do this to us poor racers? I already know,a lot of them will just for a win,even a cheat win. OH well lets decide fast if they are legal to race AGAINST.......at YOUR track.....against YOU.......BUUUUUUTTTTTTT YOU cannot have one because it is AGAINST your track rules. The jane rule,you cannot have it but my people from elsewhere can come to your track and beat you over the head with it. If you do not like it race elsewhere. WHich I did.

THE problem is just that,like aluminum heads, others had them, no advantage said their friend the tech inspector...After several years I got some and then suddenly they are a competitive advantage and I have to add weight and take away left side %. I guess if you can afford a new chassis yearly you love it. Next up is coil overs on front and the transformation form affordable to dead( suicide) supers.

This is what we call c-f. No one intelligent in charge,no insight,no foresight,no concern except for what their little heart desires regardless of damage done to others. A democrat move. We know what YOU need........even if you do not.
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#3 User is offline   governor Icon

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Posted 02 November 2014 - 03:18 PM

I hope they keep the FAB clips out West, they are not needed in the tri-state area, Ya I know Wizard your employer would much rather
see FAB clips but I for one would not support this move.

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#4 User is offline   Kevin 05 Icon

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Posted 02 November 2014 - 03:55 PM

And that is why this forum is great most of the time.. People can disagree and not have to make personal attacks at one another.. I could just see being able to easily cut $500 out of the cost of a chassis if not more.. But maybe you are right and that is me only looking at it from a company stand point.. I just remember living thru the claimer motor and hockey puck tire days and hoped that this class would continue to evolve.. I could see a fab clip with stock lowers and big springs long before I could see spending a grand or more on shocks and bumps and we sell lots of those as well.. I'm sure the Tri State area has nothing to worry about for years,, that is the way it has worked in the past so I'm sure it will again.
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#5 User is offline   Kevin 05 Icon

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Posted 02 November 2014 - 04:03 PM

And thank you Dick.. I guess that looking into the future just makes me one of those C_F Idiots.. But maybe you should look around, You sure have made a ton of changes to this class since the days of you,me,Logan,Ken Love and Ken Kropf started this.. I guess if it wasn't for C_F Idiots like me we could all still be running the old cut down cars at the Speedrome or at Jackson Speedway with roll cages.. Fab clips with stock lowers and big spring like I said could easily be $500 cheaper IF the builder didn't want to keep making $$$$. And that doesn't include what repair costs would be.
Thanks a C_F Wizard
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#6 User is offline   Crew Chief Icon

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Posted 02 November 2014 - 08:56 PM

I really don't think a IMCA style modified needs a tube clip. This class was developed for the economy type racer.
We are already crazy with shocks, bump stops and expensive stuff. I hope the Top Speed/ICAR stick with a stock front frame section.
I can see if that fabricated stub becomes common place these mods will turn into NASCAR Type Wheelen mods and they will be a way too expensive to race.
The class numbers will drop drastically.
Just IMHO
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#7 User is offline   racer72 Icon

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Posted 02 November 2014 - 09:23 PM

does anyone have a pic of these fabbed front clip mods? do they still have the "frame" rails?
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#8 User is offline   superfast_86 Icon

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 08:40 AM

Howe has one built and is or will be sitting in their showroom soon...
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#9 User is offline   mod911 Icon

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 09:39 AM

Well if I was making money off the mods guys and did not give a damn about how the class is doing I would build the poor guys right out of the race. For my own profit,of course. I just know no one would cheat the rules just for their drivers advantage,right? I just know they would copy the dimensions EXACTLY. Even circle jerks magazine encourages cheating when building your frame,this little comment of "you could just put the weld up frame together with a few things where you need them not where they are supposed to be". WINK-WINK. What a sh*t magazine. They build with FREE stuff and GOOD stuff from the cheaters who want to sell you cheating parts. SO a body like the one that was at winchester,nicely rounded and aerodynamic with a tube chassis and a sb2 motor is all good for the average mod racer??? Right. Maybe good for howe and port city and other builders who will cheat to make their cars look good. Lets decide before one shows up and says "no competitive advantage" so it is fine.

It look like everyone else says "NO" also. So now what ? Shove it up our tail sections as good for "US".
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#10 User is offline   ICAR Icon

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 09:44 AM

With all the calls and emails . I will say this about tub clips. The tub clip will never race with ICAR... Over the past year i have had one guy who would like tub clips and over 100 people say NO.
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Posted 03 November 2014 - 12:22 PM

View PostICAR, on 03 November 2014 - 09:44 AM, said:

With all the calls and emails . I will say this about tub clips. The tub clip will never race with ICAR... Over the past year i have had one guy who would like tub clips and over 100 people say NO.

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 12:23 PM

View PostICAR, on 03 November 2014 - 09:44 AM, said:

With all the calls and emails . I will say this about tub clips. The tub clip will never race with ICAR... Over the past year i have had one guy who would like tub clips and over 100 people say NO.

Thanks much apprreciated
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#13 User is offline   ICAR Icon

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 01:08 PM

Just got off the phone with Bill from LUCAS OIL MODIFIED SERIES, one of the owners, and I was talking about tub clips to him and his quote was "HELL NO " never going to happen .
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#14 User is offline   mod911 Icon

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 05:14 PM

Well how about that? Cleared it up didn't we. Pretty damn easy. Whats next?
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#15 User is offline   Kevin 05 Icon

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 07:49 PM

View Postmod911, on 04 November 2014 - 09:14 AM, said:

Well how about that? Cleared it up didn't we. Pretty damn easy. Whats next?

NOTHING Go ahead and live with the series you help bring to life decades ago in the state of Michigan.. Maybe we can go back to $300 claimer's too. Glad I don't have a dog in this fight anymore other than having to build them..To bad there isn't a place anymore where someone can be innovative.

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#16 User is offline   Kevin 05 Icon

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 08:15 PM

How about they outlaw bump stops that is a $500+ expense that certainly isn't stock or like it was years ago,, And it would save a good portion of the class money since they can't figure them out or drive with them anyway.. Or how about going back to chrome Carerra Shocks for all the big money guys. Or get rid or $500 Sweet steering boxes,
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#17 User is offline   OLDGOLD Icon

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 08:45 AM

View PostKevin 05, on 04 November 2014 - 11:15 AM, said:

How about they outlaw bump stops that is a $500+ expense that certainly isn't stock or like it was years ago,, And it would save a good portion of the class money since they can't figure them out or drive with them anyway.. Or how about going back to chrome Carerra Shocks for all the big money guys. Or get rid or $500 Sweet steering boxes,
you make good points kevin .i feel there is no reason for bumps , make it work on a 50 shock ,i also hear dick why not take a late model and take fenders off that gets the dead late models back on track. the big question is why do racers and promotors change rules that always end up costing more money to the racer but puts no more into the racers pocket.
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#18 User is offline   mod911 Icon

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 09:12 AM

Just because we do not want to race what you want to build Kevin doesn't mean we are stone age. We had alot of fun driving those old chrome shocks. IF you were around long enough you would know they were better than STOCK TRUCK shocks for 19 bucks we started with. Look at that old race posted on my face book, does it look like Fred Flinstone racing there. We had 45 cars EVERY NIGHT,and we had FUN. We raced our tires till we could see cords on row 2 and 5. YES cords. I won many features with cords showing at the end. We did not have to have new tires for every practice session and race. I took 2 weeks to study up and put bumpers on my car and had a new driver and guess what????? FAST time at S-P first night. Did well at Harvest 100,4th, first race for new driver. Had 2nd fast at Owosso, 3rd fast at Nationals. Won fast car dash from last,2nd in feature. Won fast car race at Nats ,2nd in feature. One more tuning session and we would have had those wins too.

SO what is so hard about it? I been studying a lot more since so next year will be fun. If you are a racer it doesn't matter what you race as long as you are competitive and having fun,remember fun? No much FUN when you have to spend 450 on tires,100 on tickets,120 on fuel,plus entry fees and such stuff. NO fun. We used to just go race,pit pass and maybe 1 new tire a weekend on r-r. The more car builders help us the more racers QUIT.

It was stimulating to know you had to be fast just to be in the race,not just show up and get front row cause you are slow. Like now,rookies on the front row of the A not 5th row in the B. It led to a bunch of whinney pissy kids with x racer parents paying the bills. No work your way up and learn,just fly with dads cash.
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#19 User is offline   russrace Icon

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 11:14 AM

Heard same uproar ten years ago when Fab'ed Camaro clips started showing up. Since then they've saved many sportsman/LLM classes. If the pivot points are the same as OEM whats the difference? Kevin has a point...big uproar about steel frame rails/crossmember but it isn't aftermarket clips causing racing expenses to rise. How's that shock/bump invoice doing these days?
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#20 User is offline   MaddMike Icon

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 01:11 PM

From reading this, it's apparent that this part of the world isn't ready to accept anything so logical.

How does spending $300-$5oo to prep a junkyard clip save any money? How does spending that amount of money on a box of "re-stamped" frame parts that I have to jig up save any money???

And, my long standing point- if these "re-stamped" clips come unassembled, then I can make my jig "off" a bit then, can't I???? I can assemble those parts in many different ways.

What does weight placement have to do with it? is more rear weight better or something? I don'ty think so- I switched to aluminum heads and started using up rear tires. Had to add the weight back in up front anyways. So what's the difference???

How does this make them into latemodels when they still have to run stock A-arms and big springs?

The only thing fab clips does is make the cars cheaper to build, easier to fix, and easier to TECH. Sure would shut everyone up about "relocated lower A-arm mounting" (which never gets teched anyways)

I'm looking for 75 Caprice front clips right now. Anyone got one cheap? Cheap to me is the cost of new steel by weight. Hell, even if I had one for free, It would cost me a couple hundred bucks just to sand blast and prep it. My car is becoming obsolete because of inavailability of repair parts. How is that saving me money when I could buy some steel and build one myself?
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