[kaycorbgm]

Yes everyone is entitled to their opinion, that is what this club was designed for.

BUT its all in the presentation of your opinion. It can be heard without name calling and use of the "F" word - cussing is cussing you hear it everyday but why write it in your post?
I cuss, I use the "F" word sometimes but I don't need it to get my opinion across on our little club.

We have our charity bowling tournament each year - do you think the casual member - lurker here would want to come and help out if they read all the name calling and mud slinging that happens sometime on here? It's like when you read bad things about a track - would someone want to go there?

Technology is what has raised the price of racing for everyone - not a single person - not a track owner - not a series owner. Whether it is a new tire or a fabricated frame or motor parts - someone that may or may not ever step a foot into a racing facility or know much about it - they have a JOB to develop something NEW for "Big Businesses" to offer something new and different. It may make you go faster it may not, it may last longer it may not. Don't kill the messengers that are willing to test these new things out, more than likely they are donating their time, they are wondering the same thing everyone else is - how many laps will these tires hold up, what kind of abuse will this motor take, etc.

There should be no battle between dirt and pavement racing. Racing is racing no matter what we need to keep our sport alive quit saying "my house is better than your house" say come out and check us out we have 100 cars a night - come out and watch us we may only have 60 cars but we go 3 wide. Its all about the presentation of anything.

Everyone have a Happy Holiday! See you February 13th at our Annual Bowling Tournament at Capitol Bowl in Owosso where we are helping dirt and pavement families both!!

[Mopar93]

I like reading Dick's posts, but don't care for the nasty parts, that isn't necessary. I guess he doesn't hold ANYTHING back.

As for the tires, and getting somewhat back on topic, this is an ongoing subject all the time. Tires are always an issue. Some guys are crying to keep the 970 and don't want to switch. However, they complain about the 970 at other times. Something changed with the 970 in 2009, it wasn't the same tire as the 2008 tire. The racers noticed it and complained about it, but they kept using it because it was the tire of choice. Whatever tire is selected by the racing series' and the various tracks will be the tire of choice and everyone will just have to use it.

Some have said a hard tire that lasts a long time should be used. OK, specify what tire this should be? There isn't one. And if there was one and it was selected by the series' and tracks, it would be complained about heavily because half of the drivers wouldn't be able to deal with the slipping that would result. Money for tires would be saved, but the cars wouldn't handle and crap would happen and that means tore up race cars. So, it would actually cost more money. We would hear Dick complaining about the lapper that kept sliding in the turns and you can't get around him because he's all over the track. When tires don't grip, the cars get real wide in the corners. That works OK on a dirt track because all the good cars and drivers get wide in the corners and ride nicely together that way. It doesn't work on a paved track, though.

So, you need a tire that grips decently so you can focus on a good chassis setup and be able to drive the car. And hopefully, that tire will also last OK.

Maybe Hoosier wants to phase out the 970. Time to move on.

-Maurice

[OLDGOLD]

I think Dick comes across as harsh and others do not like his opinion, and although he tells it like it is he is passionate about the sport he has been involved in. ,He switched over to dirt I feel because a hand full of racers want to make changes for what they believe is best for others. SOME racers want to make changes to a system that only needs tweaking.Tire companys will not build a tire thats repeatable race after race for if they did it would not sell tires.I think tire brands alter chemical compounds after they get tracks onboard .rules are changed so much in racing that it is hard to keep up.Make everyone run on a walmart tire cutting horsepower to the ground traction.for years i have heard the talk of a narrow hard tire. On a different subject shocks make it a standard 75.00 non revalvable shock .cutting cost.eliminate the $20,000 engines and go back to a cheaper version engine. I wont be the first to remind you folks to look at where late models are today and with the things wanted by racers today in 10 years you wont be racing as YOU will be the late models of 10 years ago. There will come a point where racers wont spend $40,000 to race for $500 to win as they will say its not worth it.I am not knocking promotors but look at late model shows they are almost extinct. there are cars racable setting in garage today that arent being raced because of costs to have fun.

[Kevin 05]

One of the problems with going to the harder hockey puck type tire,, is once again $$$$$$$.. I ran LM back during the time they tried to save money for everyone and you had to run a Formula 1 off the shelf tire.. That worked for about 2 weeks and then the boys that had time and money found out you could shave them to get stagger and if you shaved them they were also softer.. Then if you really wanted to go all out you learned how to soak and wrap your tires in the back of the shop so nobody knew (and this was on both dirt and asphalt) so even then it was a money game.. And I really don't believe the point that someday we will wake up and not spend $4000 to win $500.. we are racers,,nobody cares about the money or we all would have wised up and quit a long time ago..This is our drug.. Heck most of us don't even listen to wife #1,or#2,or when they tell us we should make more money at racing if we just didn't.. It is a money game and those that have it will always be in front of even those with talent..Look at NASCAR or even ARCA you can't tell me that each and every one of them are the very best wheelmen (or Women) out there,,a good part of both just have $$$$ or corporate appeal.I'll bet we could all look around at our local tracks or series and come up with at least one name that given the corporate dollars could not be up there.

[OLDGOLD]

Kevin 05, on 25 December 2015 - 03:59 AM, said:

One of the problems with going to the harder hockey puck type tire,, is once again $$$$$$$.. I ran LM back during the time they tried to save money for everyone and you had to run a Formula 1 off the shelf tire.. That worked for about 2 weeks and then the boys that had time and money found out you could shave them to get stagger and if you shaved them they were also softer.. Then if you really wanted to go all out you learned how to soak and wrap your tires in the back of the shop so nobody knew (and this was on both dirt and asphalt) so even then it was a money game.. And I really don't believe the point that someday we will wake up and not spend $4000 to win $500.. we are racers,,nobody cares about the money or we all would have wised up and quit a long time ago..This is our drug.. Heck most of us don't even listen to wife #1,or#2,or when they tell us we should make more money at racing if we just didn't.. It is a money game and those that have it will always be in front of even those with talent..Look at NASCAR or even ARCA you can't tell me that each and every one of them are the very best wheelmen (or Women) out there,,a good part of both just have $$$$ or corporate appeal.I'll bet we could all look around at our local tracks or series and come up with at least one name that given the corporate dollars could not be up there.

merry christmas kevin and all the racers .You say you dont think the time will come when we wake up and not race because of costs?So where are all these cars and racers?.I have never ran late models but in startng my 47th year I have seen so many changes that i question.I have run stocks,detroit iron,pure stocks,sportman,streetstocks flying stocks and mod for 3 years and started with a 1957 chevy 2 door 6 cylinder,the costs were cheap the car was $150 not much safety was followed as in short sleeve shirts and lap belt.I ran on F-78-15 tires from the junk yard,It was fun and didnt cost a arm and leg.wages were $2.50 per hr fuel was $5,pit passes were$8 for the nite and i would be paid $25-$35 for a night.Those were fun times I still race but now its$500 week wages,$240 per night for tires, 60 for pit passes and race for $100 to 300 per nite to me the things that have changed are tires,race fuel,shock packages that are $500-$1500 ,and $10,000 to $25,000 engines.I personally do it for the fun and not necessarily the money but it helps the cost. what can you think of that would lower the cost to race and have fun?I truly believe that when racers quit coming so do the familys and friends so car counts suffer and then it causes attendance to go with it. It ends up that the few that have big sponsors and deep pockets are the only ones racing and the budget racers donot race.

[OLDGOLD]

Kevin 05, on 25 December 2015 - 03:59 AM, said:

One of the problems with going to the harder hockey puck type tire,, is once again $$$$$$$.. I ran LM back during the time they tried to save money for everyone and you had to run a Formula 1 off the shelf tire.. That worked for about 2 weeks and then the boys that had time and money found out you could shave them to get stagger and if you shaved them they were also softer.. Then if you really wanted to go all out you learned how to soak and wrap your tires in the back of the shop so nobody knew (and this was on both dirt and asphalt) so even then it was a money game.. And I really don't believe the point that someday we will wake up and not spend $4000 to win $500.. we are racers,,nobody cares about the money or we all would have wised up and quit a long time ago..This is our drug.. Heck most of us don't even listen to wife #1,or#2,or when they tell us we should make more money at racing if we just didn't.. It is a money game and those that have it will always be in front of even those with talent..Look at NASCAR or even ARCA you can't tell me that each and every one of them are the very best wheelmen (or Women) out there,,a good part of both just have $$$$ or corporate appeal.I'll bet we could all look around at our local tracks or series and come up with at least one name that given the corporate dollars could not be up there.

Merry Christmas Kevin and all the racers .You say you do not think the time will come when we wake up and not race because of costs?So where are all these cars and racers?.I have never ran late models but in Starting my 47th year I have seen so many changes that i question.I have run stocks,Detroit iron,pure stocks,Sportman,street stocks flying stocks and mod for 3 years and started with a 1957 Chevy 2 door 6 cylinder,the costs were cheap the car was $150 not much safety was followed as in short sleeve shirts and lap belt.I ran on F-78-15 tires from the junk yard,It was fun and did not cost a arm and leg.wages were $2.50 per hr fuel was $5,pit passes were$8 for the night and i would be paid $25-$75 for a night.Those were fun times. I still race but now its$500 week wages,$240 per night for tires, 60 for pit passes,70 for race fuel and race for $100 to 300 per night. To me the things that have changed are tires,race fuel,shock packages that are $500-$1500 ,and $10,000 to $25,000 engines.I personally do it for the fun and not necessarily the money but it helps the cost. what can you think of that would lower the cost to race and have fun?I truly believe that when racers quit coming so do the Familys and friends so car counts suffer and then it causes attendance to go with it. It ends up that the few that have big sponsors and deep pockets are the only ones racing and the budget racers do not race.

[BigEd]

I'm a perfect example of someone who didn't know how to post when I first joined this club. I caused controversy and flat out pissed people off. I battled hard with Dick for a time, it was stupid when I look back now, but it taught me about how NOT to communicate on these type of boards.

I don't feel Dick learned a thing from those battles. He doesn't care about what his words do to other people. Honestly, it's just rudeness. No internet politeness or courtesy is employed by him. I read his post and love his points, and usually his passion, but HATE his attitude and how he treats anyone that may not agree with him.

So what are you supposed to do?? All the negativity starts to drain on the masses, something had to be done.


I echo Laney's post, go girl !!!

[GavinHunyady187]

Mopar93, on 23 December 2015 - 08:36 PM, said:

OK, now let's see a show of hands for all of those who DO NOT read Dick's posts. ...PAUSE... I don't see any hands.

I think everyone is getting bored.

-Maurice

Most excitement this old place has had in years. There's no right way to handle these things... glad I don't wear that hat anymore.

[mod911]

Lets try this again,all this testing did was cost me money. No better tire,not longer lasting tire if you want to make the race. Which everyone does now since car counts are poor anyway. You may be able to win a race with 50 laps on your tires starting out but you may not MAKE the race if you do not get new ones if the car count is high.
I would suggest ELIMINATING qualifying and draw for a heat race spot and earning your starting spot in the feature by RACING for it. Open the tracks up at 5PM,10 laps practice in groups of 10 and that's it. Practice night should be a DIFFERENT night than RACE night....It is unfair for a guy who works till 5PM on Friday and has NO practice to make a show with 40 cars. NO other sport has 4 hours of practice before competing on the same day. RACE day is for RACING.
I know who will bad mouth me for this post but have fun,my skin is thick and so is my skull so have at it boys and girls.
This saying "no competitive advantage" should be banned and if you are 4 and 1/8th on a 4 inch rule you should be disqualified and given start pay after the race in tech inspection....PERIOD.... Not whinning about no competitive advantage stuff. If you can get 2.2 tho bearing clearance and a balance to micro grams to turn 9500 you can measure 4 inches and be right......Lets get some traffic going here. All b-s will be called out immediately so do not pull stuff out of your ying-yang and spout it off......

[Verwayne]

Good to see you back!

[Kevin 05]

I have to agree,, it is good to see you back..But I do have one comment ,, Why would you even pay them start $$$$$ ?? I say load it and have a nice day..

[DRTmotorsports]

mod911, on 15 December 2017 - 09:33 AM, said:

Lets try this again,all this testing did was cost me money. No better tire,not longer lasting tire if you want to make the race. Which everyone does now since car counts are poor anyway. You may be able to win a race with 50 laps on your tires starting out but you may not MAKE the race if you do not get new ones if the car count is high.
I would suggest ELIMINATING qualifying and draw for a heat race spot and earning your starting spot in the feature by RACING for it. Open the tracks up at 5PM,10 laps practice in groups of 10 and that's it. Practice night should be a DIFFERENT night than RACE night....It is unfair for a guy who works till 5PM on Friday and has NO practice to make a show with 40 cars. NO other sport has 4 hours of practice before competing on the same day. RACE day is for RACING.
I know who will bad mouth me for this post but have fun,my skin is thick and so is my skull so have at it boys and girls.
This saying "no competitive advantage" should be banned and if you are 4 and 1/8th on a 4 inch rule you should be disqualified and given start pay after the race in tech inspection....PERIOD.... Not whinning about no competitive advantage stuff. If you can get 2.2 tho bearing clearance and a balance to micro grams to turn 9500 you can measure 4 inches and be right......Lets get some traffic going here. All b-s will be called out immediately so do not pull stuff out of your ying-yang and spout it off......

Actually, I agree with some of this. I think the race day is entirely too long at some places. I will not mention names, but a couple pavement tracks we visited were easy 12 hours days for race teams, and even longer for officials. It is not as bad now, but 8 to 9 hour days are not unheard of. I know most folks on this site would never hear of giving up qualifying, but I do think it should be reserved for special events, or events with features only. Heat races are boring when all the fast cars are in one race, and they mean nothing. A 3 hour program for fans, and a 5 to 6 hour program for teams and officials would be my idea.

Back on topic, I have no idea what the answer is for tires. If there was a good solution, I am sure someone would have thought of it by now. But, switching tires every few years, and all the tracks being on different tires helps nobody except the tire manufactures. Soaking them is a touchy subject, but you can get more life out of old tires if done correctly. Many teams soak them now anyway. Some teams will still bolt new tires on every race, and soak them from the get go. So again, there is no easy answer there either. let alone some of the health and environmental concerns. I wish I had the answer, i would be a rich man by now. Wait, maybe that is the problem...