Michigan Short Track Racing Club: What IS a Flat Rock Street Stock? - Michigan Short Track Racing Club

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What IS a Flat Rock Street Stock?

#21 User is offline   JayTMotorsports Icon

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 09:07 AM

I absolutely agree with the below comment..... in some cases of the front running guys you spend more than even the mid pack late models.

View Postzerospeed, on 23 January 2013 - 10:31 PM, said:

If they would stop selling 4 tires a night to some people...they may have a B main again one day. It's the same price after payout to field a late model there (nightly operation).

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#22 User is offline   zerospeed Icon

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 01:03 PM

Street Stock-
Tires: 400
Fuel: 50
Oil: 30 (If you change if every few nights)
Pit: 90
Misc: 30

Total 600
3rd place 125 (ish)

Cost 475
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#23 User is offline   zerospeed Icon

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 01:11 PM

Here's our Must See Super Modified budget, that was my old street stock budget that was saved in excel on my laptop.

Tires $200 (hard American racer tires that last a long time)$60
Fuel $60
Truck fuel $125
Oil $40
Pit $90
Road costs $150 (Room, food, etc)

Total $665


START pay $750 (avg)

Cost -$85

Grant it...that's just a weekly operational snapshot, but that's a measly 85 dollars back....to drive all over and race huge tracks. We have expensive big motors to care for, and light weight high dollar parts are more expensive to replace I know that. However.....475 outta pocket to run a SS is insane if you look at that.
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#24 User is offline   JayTMotorsports Icon

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 01:21 PM

The thing i noticed is that in an open wheel modified the start money is equal to 5th place in the A main in a street stock. I will have the same tire bill with slightly increased tow. The engine cost is slightly higher but then again if finish 12 or higher the payback is far greater. I understand if your budget keeps you close to the track but at that point there is a cross over where the cost does out weigh any benefit by racing close to home. Just my opinion. I think Brad is right on.
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#25 User is offline   zerospeed Icon

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 06:24 PM

I know guys that run right up front at Spartan in a mod....they put one, maybe 2 tires on a night. 2 it seems like they don't have to, but do if they have the extra money. Flat Rock could be the best track around....it's in a great location.
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#26 User is offline   Tony P Icon

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:08 AM

I will confirm the notion about fast mods at Spartan not putting tires on every week. I ran in the top five and set fast time there in my mod with right sides that had 3 weeks on them, a LR that was one week old and a LF that was last years tire, because it gave me stagger I wanted in the front.

I don't have any experience with the tires Flat Rock runs on their street stocks, but it doesn't seem feaseable that you must buy tires to compete for wins. I've been told for years that you have to buy tires all the time to be fast, but I've proven that wrong time and time again. New tires help make up for a poor set up, or a guy who doesn't take care of them. I guess I'll find out this summer if you need tires every week to run good in a street stock at FR. If so, I'll see you all in the b main, because I don't have the budget for new rubber every week. However, if everyone is buying 4 stickers every week, I should be able to get some good take offs now shouldn't I though???? Lol

Tony P.
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#27 User is offline   Double D Icon

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 01:36 PM

View PostPasto1389, on 30 January 2013 - 11:08 AM, said:

I will confirm the notion about fast mods at Spartan not putting tires on every week. I ran in the top five and set fast time there in my mod with right sides that had 3 weeks on them, a LR that was one week old and a LF that was last years tire, because it gave me stagger I wanted in the front.

I don't have any experience with the tires Flat Rock runs on their street stocks, but it doesn't seem feaseable that you must buy tires to compete for wins. I've been told for years that you have to buy tires all the time to be fast, but I've proven that wrong time and time again. New tires help make up for a poor set up, or a guy who doesn't take care of them. I guess I'll find out this summer if you need tires every week to run good in a street stock at FR. If so, I'll see you all in the b main, because I don't have the budget for new rubber every week. However, if everyone is buying 4 stickers every week, I should be able to get some good take offs now shouldn't I though???? Lol

Tony P.

Tony P. Dont know you but welcome to the Rock. Glad to see more cars coming out it is a fun place to race. We are not sure how long these 880's are going to last but if you figure out how to get more than a couple of race nites out of them please remember I was the first one to welcome you out here. LOL All kidding aside looking forward to racing with you. Double "D" # 21
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#28 User is offline   tricknology Icon

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 04:27 PM

View PostPasto1389, on 31 January 2013 - 02:08 AM, said:

I will confirm the notion about fast mods at Spartan not putting tires on every week. I ran in the top five and set fast time there in my mod with right sides that had 3 weeks on them, a LR that was one week old and a LF that was last years tire, because it gave me stagger I wanted in the front.

I don't have any experience with the tires Flat Rock runs on their street stocks, but it doesn't seem feaseable that you must buy tires to compete for wins. I've been told for years that you have to buy tires all the time to be fast, but I've proven that wrong time and time again. New tires help make up for a poor set up, or a guy who doesn't take care of them. I guess I'll find out this summer if you need tires every week to run good in a street stock at FR. If so, I'll see you all in the b main, because I don't have the budget for new rubber every week. However, if everyone is buying 4 stickers every week, I should be able to get some good take offs now shouldn't I though???? Lol

Tony P.



Maybbe because at spartan your last hot lap session is your qualifing timeolld tires have time to warm up and get sticky?

At flat rock you get 2 laps and new tires qualify faster,,, Maybe flat rock should copy spartan and eliminate qualifying and just use your fastest lap on your last hot lap session???
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#29 User is offline   junior Icon

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 02:27 PM

View PostjhaydenX, on 19 January 2013 - 05:01 PM, said:

LIKE
I should just go buy that harley Ive been dreamin about..........

That is what I did. Less work and less money spent, plus the Better half can enjoy it too.
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#30 User is offline   russrace Icon

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 03:01 PM

A street stock class using four tires a night is on the wrong tire and needs a rule change imho. One problem with todays remaining street stock classes is junk yard 350's and OEM tranny's don't exist much anymore. Add a huge tire bill to the mix and affordable racing becomes 120hp FWD classes. Many tracks across the country have discovered this the hard way.
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#31 User is offline   fastforward Icon

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 03:58 PM

View Postrussrace, on 31 January 2013 - 03:01 PM, said:

A street stock class using four tires a night is on the wrong tire and needs a rule change imho. One problem with todays remaining street stock classes is junk yard 350's and OEM tranny's don't exist much anymore. Add a huge tire bill to the mix and affordable racing becomes 120hp FWD classes. Many tracks across the country have discovered this the hard way.

Russ

Regardless of the tire they are on, the problem here is that Flat Rock is allowing the purchase of 4 tires per week for a street stock division paying only $225 to win. For the track to allow this is pure lunacy and will only hurt everyone involved in the long run. At what point does the track forgo tire sales to do what is right for the division? Is the track really this blind or ignorant to the economics of all of this?
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#32 User is offline   russrace Icon

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 04:12 PM

View Postfastforward, on 31 January 2013 - 03:58 PM, said:

Russ

Regardless of the tire they are on, the problem here is that Flat Rock is allowing the purchase of 4 tires per week for a street stock division paying only $225 to win. For the track to allow this is pure lunacy and will only hurt everyone involved in the long run. At what point does the track forgo tire sales to do what is right for the division? Is the track really this blind or ignorant to the economics of all of this?


Sign of tough times for promoters? I see endless tire buying at more tracks lately. I don't recall the guys name but a few years ago Circle Track Magazine did a interview with a very successful asphalt promoter regarding tires. His comment was along the lines " if they are making $$$500hp engines I stick them on 400hp tires". The interviewer asked him how he knew when he had the correct tire in each class? His response..."when they all are bitch'n about the tire being harder than a rock I got them on the right one" His car counts proved it.

We ran the 800 Hoosier over here two years ago in the Sportsman class. Bought 12-14 tires the whole season...changed LF twice all year. Whats wrong with rock tires when race money has dried up?
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#33 User is offline   fastforward Icon

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 04:32 PM

View Postrussrace, on 31 January 2013 - 04:12 PM, said:

Sign of tough times for promoters? I see endless tire buying at more tracks lately. I don't recall the guys name but a few years ago Circle Track Magazine did a interview with a very successful asphalt promoter regarding tires. His comment was along the lines " if they are making $$$500hp engines I stick them on 400hp tires". The interviewer asked him how he knew when he had the correct tire in each class? His response..."when they all are bitch'n about the tire being harder than a rock I got them on the right one" His car counts proved it.

We ran the 800 Hoosier over here two years ago in the Sportsman class. Bought 12-14 tires the whole season...changed LF twice all year. Whats wrong with rock tires when race money has dried up?

I agree. The breaking point for most racers is upon us yet some tracks continue to operate with the mindset that there are droves of other racers waiting to come in and replace the ones who are leaving... there aren't. Certain tracks need to wake up, the back gate can't sustain it.
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#34 User is offline   indyrand Icon

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:47 PM

View Postfastforward, on 31 January 2013 - 03:58 PM, said:

Russ

Regardless of the tire they are on, the problem here is that Flat Rock is allowing the purchase of 4 tires per week for a street stock division paying only $225 to win. For the track to allow this is pure lunacy and will only hurt everyone involved in the long run. At what point does the track forgo tire sales to do what is right for the division? Is the track really this blind or ignorant to the economics of all of this?


One of my good friends is a consistent top 5 car in the Flat Rock SS A Div. He won the 2011 championship, and 4 features last year. He does not buy 4 tires every week.
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Posted 01 February 2013 - 04:36 PM

View Postindyrand, on 31 January 2013 - 11:47 PM, said:

One of my good friends is a consistent top 5 car in the Flat Rock SS A Div. He won the 2011 championship, and 4 features last year. He does not buy 4 tires every week.

The fact that the track allows you to buy 4 tires per week is the problem! Unfortunately, that is not in the best interest of the drivers/teams, especially in a division that is only paying $225 to win. But like I have said before, it's easier to nickel and dime everyone through the back gate than actually attempt to get "fans" through the front gate.

Combine a dismal economy with the ridiculous prices/fees to race and it's no wonder car counts are falling.

But what do I know...
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#36 User is offline   tricknology Icon

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 09:15 AM

maybe flat rock can try using the last hot lap session as the street stock qualifying session,, give 8 laps and your best time out of the 8 lapps is your qualifying time.

old tires are fast after they get 3 to 4 laps to warm up, but with only 2 qualifying laps new tires have an advantage over old tires, if you gave the cars 8 laps to qualify maybe the old tires would be ok.
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#37 User is offline   zerospeed Icon

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 12:48 PM

View Postindyrand, on 31 January 2013 - 11:47 PM, said:

One of my good friends is a consistent top 5 car in the Flat Rock SS A Div. He won the 2011 championship, and 4 features last year. He does not buy 4 tires every week.


I randomly ran into Tim Moore last night....we were just bs'ing about racing and he said he had to buy 4 tires a night when he won the championship. Brian Norton always had 4 tires a night, Danny Ford defffffffinatley put on 4 tires a night. ARCA will never change, they will do whatever they are going to do. The problem with Flat Rock is that it's a GREAT race track and there is a core group of cars that will show up no matter what. ARCA does next to nothing to reach out and get fans to fill their empty stands, they try to make money off selling junk Hoosier sportsman tires to guys who can only win $250 a night to win the A main, the late models should only be able to buy 2 tires a night....they don't even tech the street stock class. If you don't have a cheated up street stock, you have ZERO chance of winning the A main. If they put the SS class on hockey puck tires and allowed only 1 tire a night, or put the late models on a 2 tire a night rule I would race there. It's literally 5 minutes from my house. Other than having an expensive engine to care for, my week to week cost with tires vs. pay is wayyy less than I'd spend racing at Flat Rock. Instead of racing 5 minutes from my house this year I will be at Winchester, Anderson, in Pennsylvania, Ohio...all over, and it's way cheaper in the weekly operation budget. Something is definitely wrong with that picture.
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Posted 02 February 2013 - 03:46 PM

View Postzerospeed, on 02 February 2013 - 12:48 PM, said:

I randomly ran into Tim Moore last night....we were just bs'ing about racing and he said he had to buy 4 tires a night when he won the championship. Brian Norton always had 4 tires a night, Danny Ford defffffffinatley put on 4 tires a night. ARCA will never change, they will do whatever they are going to do. The problem with Flat Rock is that it's a GREAT race track and there is a core group of cars that will show up no matter what. ARCA does next to nothing to reach out and get fans to fill their empty stands, they try to make money off selling junk Hoosier sportsman tires to guys who can only win $250 a night to win the A main, the late models should only be able to buy 2 tires a night....they don't even tech the street stock class. If you don't have a cheated up street stock, you have ZERO chance of winning the A main. If they put the SS class on hockey puck tires and allowed only 1 tire a night, or put the late models on a 2 tire a night rule I would race there. It's literally 5 minutes from my house. Other than having an expensive engine to care for, my week to week cost with tires vs. pay is wayyy less than I'd spend racing at Flat Rock. Instead of racing 5 minutes from my house this year I will be at Winchester, Anderson, in Pennsylvania, Ohio...all over, and it's way cheaper in the weekly operation budget. Something is definitely wrong with that picture.

I new Tim was on new tires I just didnt want to argue with anyone. I hope they look at these posts and listen. I had written Circle Track magazine last year and they posted my letter in the issue they week before opening nite. All it got me was a bunch of dirty looks and some under the breath coments. I dont want to go anywhere else and this year opening nite will be my 58th opening nite at the Rock. ( I was born in feb. 1955 and in April 1955 i was watchung my old man race. I dont remember that one but I was there) Please Ron Drager and staff start paying attention to these posts, its not just that pain in the ass Doyle or Kirsh you got a guy here that lives 5 min away and tows hundreds of miles to other tracks. In 2002 when my son Dan jr drove we had a D main every nite now we cant evan fill a B. You got to keep the racers youve got and do what ever it takes to get more!
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#39 User is offline   Tony P Icon

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 06:03 PM

Spartan uses transponders to track lap times (not sure if flat rock does). The way they qualify us, is they use our practice times to group us for qualifying and then let us run 6-8 laps in groups of 6-8 cars. We space out, they throw the green and at the end of 6-8 laps they take your best time and use that as your qualifying time. I do know that I almost always run my fastest time on the third or fourth lap. I love this qualifying format, because it does indeed allow you to warm up your tires and doesn't force you to lay it all on the line in just two laps. Plus qualifying goes by so much faster.

I will be perfectly honest, I don't ever plan to win money when I race and I don't have any sponsors. When there's money to race, we race. Racing at the level in which we do isn't supposed to support us, or our hobby. I've stayed home nights, because I couldn't afford to buy a new RR until the next week and had three other tires with some life still in them. I didn't want to put extra laps on my other three tires then buy a new RR only to have a RF, LF and LR worn out. It's just the way it goes and I will have to make those decisions this year as well.

My opinion is that I'm lucky just to get to strap in and have some fun and I appreciate that I get the opportunity to do what I love. I race within my means and accept it for what it is. If I never win a feature, I don't care. I plan on it taking me a year or two racing with you guys to figure out how to make my car competitive (or decide if I need a new one...lol) and just race hard and clean along the way. If that happens to be in the middle of the b main, so be it.

Race within your means and have fun. Whether that allows you to compete for wins in NASCAR, or in a 4 cylinder class, just do it when you can and enjoy it.

Tony P.
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Posted 02 February 2013 - 06:36 PM

View PostPasto1389, on 02 February 2013 - 06:03 PM, said:

Spartan uses transponders to track lap times (not sure if flat rock does). The way they qualify us, is they use our practice times to group us for qualifying and then let us run 6-8 laps in groups of 6-8 cars. We space out, they throw the green and at the end of 6-8 laps they take your best time and use that as your qualifying time. I do know that I almost always run my fastest time on the third or fourth lap. I love this qualifying format, because it does indeed allow you to warm up your tires and doesn't force you to lay it all on the line in just two laps. Plus qualifying goes by so much faster.

I will be perfectly honest, I don't ever plan to win money when I race and I don't have any sponsors. When there's money to race, we race. Racing at the level in which we do isn't supposed to support us, or our hobby. I've stayed home nights, because I couldn't afford to buy a new RR until the next week and had three other tires with some life still in them. I didn't want to put extra laps on my other three tires then buy a new RR only to have a RF, LF and LR worn out. It's just the way it goes and I will have to make those decisions this year as well.

My opinion is that I'm lucky just to get to strap in and have some fun and I appreciate that I get the opportunity to do what I love. I race within my means and accept it for what it is. If I never win a feature, I don't care. I plan on it taking me a year or two racing with you guys to figure out how to make my car competitive (or decide if I need a new one...lol) and just race hard and clean along the way. If that happens to be in the middle of the b main, so be it.

Race within your means and have fun. Whether that allows you to compete for wins in NASCAR, or in a 4 cylinder class, just do it when you can and enjoy it.

Tony P.


What a refreshing post. Good luck this year.
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