Michigan Short Track Racing Club: LATE MODEL ALLIANCE - Michigan Short Track Racing Club

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LATE MODEL ALLIANCE Information/Suggestion Thread

#41 User is offline   fastforward Icon

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 10:23 PM

View PostBobKoorsen, on 21 September 2010 - 06:01 PM, said:

The tracks were designed for cars that were going (average lap times) several seconds slower than what the cars are turning now.

What generally puts on a more competitive show, SLM's...or the entry level classes?

Slow the cars down, go back to having REAL inversions, let the guys trade some paint...PROMOTE...and watch the fans come back.

Very true.
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#42 User is offline   Partsman Dan Icon

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 08:27 AM

At this point in my career as a car owner who spent 20 years racing weekly and chasing points championships and won a few and a couple series championships. I can't see the financial benefit of racing a slm weekly for the wear and tear on the engine especially and the cost for freshening it and the tires you consume, no matter if there 970's, 35/45's etc.

Were set up to run a MERS/Gold Cup/GLLM/SOLM type deal where you maybe only race 10 to 12 times a year.

I'm not deep pocketed by any means, but this get's us where we like to be and it is actually less expensive to race this way and get more fun by traveling to different tracks.

Now, your'e going to say we use money to travel, but it cost's less in gas there and back, compared to home and buying tires every week.

Everybody has there own view, this is mine.

Good luck and have fun
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#43 User is offline   russrace Icon

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 07:29 AM

View PostPartsman Dan, on 10 October 2010 - 09:27 AM, said:

At this point in my career as a car owner who spent 20 years racing weekly and chasing points championships and won a few and a couple series championships. I can't see the financial benefit of racing a slm weekly for the wear and tear on the engine especially and the cost for freshening it and the tires you consume, no matter if there 970's, 35/45's etc.

Were set up to run a MERS/Gold Cup/GLLM/SOLM type deal where you maybe only race 10 to 12 times a year.

I'm not deep pocketed by any means, but this get's us where we like to be and it is actually less expensive to race this way and get more fun by traveling to different tracks.

Now, your'e going to say we use money to travel, but it cost's less in gas there and back, compared to home and buying tires every week.

Everybody has there own view, this is mine.

Good luck and have fun


Dan, big $$ difference running 4 tire/8500 rpm SLM vs. 2 tire/7500 OLM weekly. We used to throw the springs away mid season and the winter freshen on a 8000+ motor is costly. Never made money on either combo but with todays "weekly" (luckly to see 14 nights lately) schedules I know many OLM motors are seeing two seasons on them. If you are touring the special event deal on 3/8's-1/2 miles then it's another story.
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#44 User is offline   SJK Icon

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 10:10 AM

Hi guys! just got off the phone from a guy on the east side and he is telling me that the tracks over there( did not say what tracks ) are going to a 78 inch across back deck and a 8" spoiler!! Is anyone hearing this too! If thats the case, that should kill the SLM guys from traveling! Let me know what people are hearing!
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#45 User is offline   dayracing11 Icon

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 05:35 PM

View PostSJK, on 12 October 2010 - 02:10 AM, said:

Hi guys! just got off the phone from a guy on the east side and he is telling me that the tracks over there( did not say what tracks ) are going to a 78 inch across back deck and a 8" spoiler!! Is anyone hearing this too! If thats the case, that should kill the SLM guys from traveling! Let me know what people are hearing!

As far as I know all the tracks have had 8" spoilers for a couple years now and the 78" across the back is ok if all the tracks let the cars get wider. I think is a step in the right direction if all the track/series go the same route.
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#46 User is offline   dayracing11 Icon

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 05:51 PM

View Postrussrace, on 11 October 2010 - 11:29 PM, said:

Dan, big $$ difference running 4 tire/8500 rpm SLM vs. 2 tire/7500 OLM weekly. We used to throw the springs away mid season and the winter freshen on a 8000+ motor is costly. Never made money on either combo but with todays "weekly" (luckly to see 14 nights lately) schedules I know many OLM motors are seeing two seasons on them. If you are touring the special event deal on 3/8's-1/2 miles then it's another story.


We travel about as much as anybody or more. If we get rained out early as you know Scott I am looking for a track that looks like they will race and we take off and race. Saturday at Berlin was our 27 race we ran in this year. I haven't put valve springs in that motor since late 2006. Them nice little Ford motors are so easy to maintain :P With only buying a limited amount of tires and using our 970 take off from Kalamazoo at other tracks really saves a bunch of money and I would say we are ahead on the money thing again this year but not enough to go racing full time lol. I have run the 35/45's many time and they are a great tire but I still think the 970 is way better since they repeat so well. I ran both the 35/45's at Berlin this past weekend and the 970's felt really good out there. Yes they were slower and had tons of laps but I think those tires would provide much more side by side racing on that track and would cut tire cost a bunch. Rumor is Berlin is going to 2 tires a nite but if they stick on the 35/45's the difference between the cars that rotate to the stickers one nite and the cars on old will be huge. If they go to 970's they will have my attention but 35/45's I may still go there a few times next year if they get the rules closer to everybody else (nose/Spoiler rule of their's and left side rule keep a few cars away)
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#47 User is offline   SJK Icon

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 06:52 PM

Randy, just curious what tracks did you race this year? I only saw you at Plymouth and K-ZOO! And it sounds like the tracks on the east side are the ones that want to do the 78 inch rule
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#48 User is offline   lm9 Icon

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 08:37 PM

View Postdayracing11, on 11 October 2010 - 06:35 PM, said:

As far as I know all the tracks have had 8" spoilers for a couple years now and the 78" across the back is ok if all the tracks let the cars get wider. I think is a step in the right direction if all the track/series go the same route.

randy... a step in the right direction? how do you figure? do you just enjoy building new body panels for the fun of it? how is making the car wider a step in the right direction? as far as all tracks on the same page.. i agree.. they are on paper....too bad the tech guys wont look at anything on the cars or enforce anything when they see that its wrong ..we dont need to change our bodies every year just to meet new rules. this stuff is expensive enough .. itd be nice if the promoters and tech people would just enforce what theyve already agreed on.they need to change the rules when the new rule will fix a problem.. if it doesnt fix a problem why make a new rule? - leave them alone
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#49 User is offline   russrace Icon

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 09:20 AM

If this 78" rule is fact...another typical move by asphalt promoters to further muck up the Outlaw scene. Rumor is two tracks on westside are facing padlocks for 2011. If thats the case I see only one major weekly track left with Outlaw cars and they will resort to their own rules further containing the remaining Outlaws cars to only a select few tracks to run.
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#50 User is offline   Doug Icon

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 10:25 AM

Don't quite understand the 78" spoiler deal either. That would have to change the pillar dimension also. I have heard Berlin is looking at a new rotatable tire to replace the 35/45 and expanding the schedule. It looks like the Zoo and Berlin could remain strong LM tracks.
I really don't care what any of them do as long as they get on the same page.
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#51 User is offline   russrace Icon

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 02:02 PM

Doug-That was the word at Berlin Saturday...two tires a night for 2011. Can't imagine it's a slick? Few of them repeat unless Hoosier has a rock in the making. M40 is switching to Saturdays, three Saturday LM tracks in West Michigan? Don't see it. Berlin has their own field as does Kazoo but with the teams that pulled the plug last three years it will be tough.

78" makes no sense at all for this class.
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#52 User is offline   Brad Skusa Icon

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 03:43 PM

You guys can't forget Galesburg. 4 freaking race tracks with in 110 miles of one another. Like this is one of those moments where i just want to know what in gods name is going through the heads of some of these guys. I really hope someone has an explanation that makes sense because i just can't wrap my arms around this.
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#53 User is offline   BillyT Icon

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 04:55 PM

There may be another track that is going to run 6 Outlaw Late Model Races next year.. It is within 3 hours of Kalamazoo. I'm going this weekend or next weekend to do a tire test. We are trying to figure out what tires will be the best.. I'm taking three sets of tires 9 inch slick, 10 inch slick and 970. I will keep everyone up to date.
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#54 User is offline   Doug Icon

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 05:01 PM

Better take tire wormers, testing any tire at this point of the seaon up North is not going to show much Billy unless you get some unusuall good weather.
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#55 User is offline   BillyT Icon

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 07:42 PM

I'm hoping to get everything around and do it this weekend. You are right Doug, I need to get this done ASAP
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#56 User is offline   SJK Icon

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 07:13 AM

Russ and Doug, do you think Berlin and K-zoo will get anyone but there regulars? I still see both tracks only getting 15-18 SLM!! Why do the guys on the east side and OH and IN not vist these tracks very much? and ideas?
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#57 User is offline   russrace Icon

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 07:28 AM

View PostBillyT, on 12 October 2010 - 05:55 PM, said:

There may be another track that is going to run 6 Outlaw Late Model Races next year.. It is within 3 hours of Kalamazoo. I'm going this weekend or next weekend to do a tire test. We are trying to figure out what tires will be the best.. I'm taking three sets of tires 9 inch slick, 10 inch slick and 970. I will keep everyone up to date.


Billy, I can save them alot of time and money. Unless they are paying $400 to start and $2500 min. to win leave the slicks at home. I'm guessing this is Illiana or the track north of the bridge?
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#58 User is offline   russrace Icon

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 07:41 AM

View PostSJK, on 13 October 2010 - 08:13 AM, said:

Russ and Doug, do you think Berlin and K-zoo will get anyone but there regulars? I still see both tracks only getting 15-18 SLM!! Why do the guys on the east side and OH and IN not vist these tracks very much? and ideas?


Kazoo gets Indiana LM's through out the season. Most eastside cars are setup for big tire/big hp special events. Owosso is probably the smallest track in the Big O/AC/Dixie/Toledo circuit not counting Flat Rock. Most of the Michiana tracks are close quartered bullrings resembling Flat Rock. The West side guys cut their teeth on the bullrings and race them weekly, the eastsiders run more of a 3/8-1/2 mile diet. Berlin is a another animal, five turns- very precision racetrack. It's the toughest asphalt track I've ever had to setup a car at. Many of the top runners are on the small stroke/big bore 310-322" cid diet. Very expensive motors that can also work at Kazoo but struggle at other places.

You won't see eastsiders crossing I-69 too much or vice versa with Westsiders as long as we have 60%left/No Left/ 10" slicks and 9" treads. Too expensive these days.
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#59 User is offline   dayracing11 Icon

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 07:28 PM

View PostSJK, on 12 October 2010 - 10:52 AM, said:

Randy, just curious what tracks did you race this year? I only saw you at Plymouth and K-ZOO! And it sounds like the tracks on the east side are the ones that want to do the 78 inch rule

This year I raced Kalamazoo, Plymouth, Spartan, New Paris, Galesburg, Berlin, and this weekend M40 oh and I ran Merrit once this year but not with my pavement car lol.

Is the 78" over the rear tires or the spoiler? Many of the cars on the eastside have been at 78" over the rear tires for a long time since it is something that is not checked often. Just because the max rule is 78" over the rear tires doesn't mean you have to change to that and it may not be what you want to do anyway since the C pillar has to be moved out unless they copy the OSCAAR rules and let there be way more ledge. if you can only have 4" of ledge and 9" at 52" from base of the spoiler then you will be punching a bigger hole in the air and not gaining any down force. My car needs a new body on it after a couple ruff races. I will be waiting to build my body when the rules come out this year and I will make it so I can race any track even if I have to give up a little at a few. I know a few cars that will remained parked all season until real outlaws come out at the end of the year when you can go topless, less body rules and put verticals on. I only think its a step in the right direction if the body rules become more relaxed since these are outlaw cars.
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#60 User is offline   dayracing11 Icon

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 07:39 PM

View PostBrad Skusa, on 13 October 2010 - 07:43 AM, said:

You guys can't forget Galesburg. 4 freaking race tracks with in 110 miles of one another. Like this is one of those moments where i just want to know what in gods name is going through the heads of some of these guys. I really hope someone has an explanation that makes sense because i just can't wrap my arms around this.

Actually the Burg has rumors about it not opening next year to. Just rumors!! I've heard a couple Indiana tracks won't open, I also heard one of them got sold and will be going to sundays and yes all these are just rumors!! I did also hear South bend got sold at the auction today (finalization waiting approval) and will be racing April 2011 but they didn't say what day but there are some big names interested in backing the place. I think the best move any track made in the past couple years was Angola with going to a limited schedule and going to a bigger pay out drawing way more cars and fans than they have had in the past few years. All the tracks need to work together not only on rules but schedules so if a track is going to have a big race others will have a chance to race in it. What better promotion for a track than if one of their cars went to another track and won a big race.
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